Games Workshop is right. I have to admit it. Their hobbyists are primarily collectors. That is the only way I can explain the Horus Heresy madness out there right now. I look at this sprue and I see just a dense version of this:
Tactical Squad box from a like 15 years ago. The majority of miniatures in the kit is 30 tac marines that look slightly different than the hundred that all these people already have. I bet the legs and arms are even at the same angles. Making 2 of those tactical squads got boring and here you get another one also.
I saw someone talk about how at 100 pounds this is a great deal since it is like 330 pounds worth of forgeworld stuff. Comparing mass produced injected molded stuff to resin is never a good way to determine value. It might be a good deal compared to the 150 dollars vs the 200+ for the GW 40K plastic stuff but most of that has way more options and such. The body of the dread is one piece from feet to head just like the dread I got in Black Reach for 60 dollars for more total miniatures also. I also remember GW used to have a box which had 30 multipose plastic old style marines. Seem to recall that was like 7 or 8 pounds.
While I might not like the style of the Age of Sigmar minis they at least got some, What I have seen here looks pretty meh. If we care about the games lets hear some stuff about the game but GW is right it is all about the minis. If this is some major game what is the game and probably we should wait to hear about that but they do not really care and will happy drop 150 dollars to rebuy minis they already have because these have extra bumps.
GW customers are GW miniature collectors, They are total right on that. No debate now. I personally have felt the pull of the GW miniature and collecting. I have an unbuilt space marines predator and about a whole squad of marines from my last purchase in pieces still and that was during early 5th edition so two whole editions ago.
One additional note. Anyone who says this is the HORUS HERESY there are no XENOS does not know shit about the HORUS HERESY and the history of its games. I have been playing in the HORUS HERESY era since before some of those jokers where born and my original rulebook for the first boxed game dedicated to Space Marines vs Space Marines has Orks and Eldar on page 13. The first rules supplement is pretty much divided Space Marines, Orks, and Eldar. Hell, they could bring back Squats and add them to this game and it would be just fine. I am not saying that they have any plans to do such a thing but that it is not outside the scope of the setting. Necrons and Tau not so much but hell yes for Squats.
The game not being the thing is that someone had the whole set in their hand and never mentions how many scenarios or much of anything that falls into game. Did show some pretty pictures of pretty paintings of ultramarines. Given that sprue pics leaked months and months ago but nothing is know about the "game" it seems like that would be my focus if I only had a few moments with the box.
I'll not argue about the cost of the box or the look of the models. Thats a matter of personal preference. Your point about xenos is wrong though. Beeing mentioned in some piece of fluff is different from actually mattering. Fact is, HH is about the imperium of man fighting itself, with marines as main protagonists and guard / other auxiliaries as little helpers, usually just good to represent the countless amount of cannon fodder every big battle needs. Xenos are just there as distraction from the greater events (or as cannon fodder to make marines look good). While some of them take a part (like the Eldar), in the end they do not matter.
ReplyDeleteThey are a bit like the native americans, sure, they took part in battles during the american revolution to gain independence, but when you boil it all down, it will be colonists vs. brits.
Thanks for the reply. Not having an effect given this quote:
DeleteBefore Horus declared his treachery against the Emperor, he ordered the Ultramarines Legion to assemble for war in the Veridian System in Segmentum Tempestus far to the galactic south, claiming that the system was under attack by an Ork invasion force from the Ghaslakh Empire.
Moving the ultramarines away to fight Orks probably had a bigger effect than anything 2 groups of 15 marines can do in a Boardgame without some really creative story telling.
But this just proves my point? Orks are like a npc here, just like Ullanor. After a victory and a giant parade, are the battles mentioned? Do we play them? No. Its just a galactic pest that needed to be destroyed, the important events happened between the primarchs there.
DeleteAnd I don't understand your last sentence. You do realize that, in the setting, all those battles that are fought between players represent just small fractions of a larger battle / war? If you want to play forces that would matter (as in the fluff), you would need hundred or better thousands of marines each side and thats not even counting whole guard regiments that get destroyed in a few seconds.
Probably the only direct marine/xenos (as in "not chaos influenced") interaction that has somekind of importance is between Eldrad and Fulgrim and even this is over pretty quick.
Sorry, I did not get to totally finish what I was saying. Unless the Box game includes a Primarch/Emperor pretty much anything you do is small potatoes. It can be made consequential to the overall setting with narrative elements but since GW has been slowing filling in a big black hole of information for over 25 years that the Horus Heresy they can easily add some important events for any race they want. The beginning and end of the stories are set and they can do what ever they want in between. What if the Dark Adepts of Mars learn the location of some lost technology vital to the assault on Terra but it is on a world controlled by the Eldar and a brave band of Sons of Horus have to retrieve it. Just as important as anything else you could do with the minis in this box.
DeleteIf GW actually spent the time developing a new game that they plan on supporting limiting it purely to Marine on Marine would be just stupid. If it is just a one of board game it is one thing but if is actually a new third line with its own rules limiting it to just marines limits the money you can make and GW does not want that surely.
On the other hand, a starter set containing two opposing legions would be cost-prohibitive.
DeleteThat is the reason the Horus Heresy exists in the first place. Half the tooling costs back in the day for the first Titan and Epic games.
DeleteTotally agree with your sentiment. Completely "meh" about the whole release, I was assembling similarly detailed marines twenty years ago, I'd rather spend the box price getting exactly the forgeworld stuff I want rather than converting these guys. I don't want another un played box to sit on the shelf either...
ReplyDeletePeople can like Horus Heresy stuff. I just get the feeling that if I showed one of these to my wife vs any of my existing tac marines she would essentially claim no difference and finding them would be like those find 10 differences puzzles. If you are already super excited for this it pretty much confines GWs collectors theory.
DeleteThat people into Warhammer 40k are mainly collectors has been known for quite a while. It took me a while to admit it to myself, but since I collect very specific SM models via bits sites it eventually became clear to me that my participation in the GW hobby was primarily as a collector, and secondarily as a game player. I'm pretty excited for the HH box not because I'm planning on buying it so much as it bodes well for them eventually releasing a similar box of Mk VI plastic marines.
DeleteI saw some more pictures and they look a little better. I still do not need more marines.
DeleteI don't either. I'm buying the game parts from Bits and Kits though. It looks like something I could use for casual gaming with non-40k fans.
Delete