Dark Sun 4e Review: Classes

The new Dark Sun character class setting section is an area where I think the designers let me down. They provide 4 new builds of existing classes: Wild Battlemind, Arena Fighter, Animist Shaman, and Sorcerer King Pact Warlock. I really like the idea of the classic Templar being a Warlock in the new rules. They also provide some new Epic destinies which are updated things from the classic Dragon Kings hardbound rule book.

The problem I have is that DnD 4e has like 20 classes currently. Are these all appropriate for the Dark Sun setting? Can all the changes be made using the Themes. One of the very important parts of the Dark Sun setting directly affect classes. Limited magic access. Arcane magic is only derived at this time from surrounding lifeforce and hence tightly controlled by the Sorcerer Kings and feared by the populace. So all arcane classes need to fit this mold. Divine Magic is derived from the elemental planes or forces of nature. These sources demand a real price for their power in supporting their expansion and protection.

They really give you very little guidance about how to fit or if to try to fit all these classes into Dark Sun. Most of the classes in the Players Handbook work pretty well without major changes except for Paladin which never existed on Dark Sun since people which such selflessness were wiped from existence thousands of years ago. Isn't natural or unnatural selection fun. I would also think that all clerics need to have the elemental priest theme and the only Warlocks should be the Templar Pact ones since Dark Sun is cut off from the Planes to make pacts with otherworldly beings. They do have a note about not allowing any divine classes but quickly list excuses for allowing a player to play one. They say like nothing should stop the player from playing the character they want to? There might be some other sources who can provide some powers adventure specific villains but probably not to first level PCs.

Distinctions get a bit tougher in the Players Handbook 2. You get classes like Druids, Shamans, and Barbarians which fit in just fine. The Warden might be fine also or could be made using Ranger and a Theme. All these primal classes give probably a to far to wilderness theme than Dark Sun should have. Then you get 2 Divine Classes that are tougher. Both the Invoker and Avenger seem like they might not fit even with elemental power source. Finally you get the Sorcerer and Bard which are the biggest problem. The Sorcerer could be fine but neither of the builds make sense because nothing in Dark Sun is naturally magical at this time. Both Dragonblood and Chaos magic just are not right for the setting. This class really needs a Dark Sun specific build to be included. Bards are also a problem. Classic Dark Sun Bards had no arcane powers, they were non magical entertainers and assassins since the populace would not be entertained/inspired by magical performers. I would probably totally eliminate this class and add a free performance skill to the Athasian Minstrel theme.


Overall I am not very happy with this section. Probably just a little specifics about good and bad classes for the setting and maybe 2 more Dark Sun specific builds should have been done. I know that they do not want to limit what you can do in your games but that is one of the points of a campaign setting to provide some additional structure to a very open ended game system.

Epic: Heresy Era Space Marine Motor Pool

Quick Break from Dark Sun for another topic post. Also vote in my poll about who GW is trying to sell Isle of Blood to?

I have now built up a pretty good sized motor pool for my Heresy era epic space marine force. 2 Landraider formations, 2 whirlwind formations, 1 predator formation, 3 vindicators, 2 razorbacks, and 4 hunters plus rhinos for transports. Even got my 2 classic thunderhawks in the picture. I have actually also experimented with painting on the landraiders getting a feel for the scale.

Just need to get my warhounds, reaver, and thunderbolts built up to add to the options. Still need to get some old dreadnoughts for this force though.

Dark Sun 4e Review: Character Themes

An interesting addition to the character creation process in 4e is the Character Theme. It is somewhere between character race and class. It is available to all characters and grants 1 feature power which can be retrained to a more powerful version at higher levels. It also grants access to additional choices during character advancement. They also open up some paragon paths.

These themes help shift standard classes closer to one of the classic Dark Sun classes. The list is Athasian Minstrel, Dune Trader, Elemental Priest, Gladiator, Noble Adept, Primal Guardian, Templar, Veiled Alliance, Waste Land Nomad, Wilder. These mainly line up with a couple individual classes but they can be combined with any class to create some unique options.

I like this section. Making classes in 4e seems more complicated than back in ADnD since you each one needs pages of powers that have to be written. These themes Dark Sun up the existing classes without having to write a whole new build.

Dark Sun 4e Review: Races

It appears to me that 4ed is essentially already overloaded with options in terms of race. Each new player handbook adds several new races to the already expand basic list. This is probably where I wished they showed some more restraint and kept it to the same list of basic races to the original version of Dark Sun.

I just do not think Dragonborn, Eldarin or Tieflings belong on Dark Sun especially as PC races. They claim the Dragonborn are rejects from Giustenal but given the nature of the lone know Dragon the Athas, I do not think any Draconic beings would be welcome in the citystates. It is not like you are short of races with 8 in the classic version. So if I was going to run a game the allowed races would be Human, Halfling, Half Elf, Thrikreen, Mul, Dwarf, Half Giant(Goliath), and Elf. Revised Dark Sun added in Pterran and Aarakocra but I could take or leave either of those as PC races neither of which shows up in this edition anyway.

An important part of Dark Sun has always been that the classic fantasy races are present but very different in nature. This was done not just with changes in physical descriptions, dwarves are all bald and elves are tall, lean desert runners know to be thieves, but also changes to special rules or some new ability. In this edition, they just changed the flavor text but did not make any changes to rules. Seems like 4e has toned down some of the racial rules anyway but a rule change for each race would have been more interesting. Or maybe some new race specific feats just for Dark Sun. While the two new races have a couple of race specific feats and racial paragon path each plus 1 for half giants, the other races do not have any new feats or Dark Sun specific racial paragon paths.

They did not do a bad job with this section seeming to just take the easy route by essentially changing nothing on the basic races.

Poll: Who is Isle of Blood Really For?

If you missed it this weekend I did a review of the new Warhammer Fantasy Battles Starter Box after checking it out at my FLGS. I was left with the question of who the target audience of this product really is since it was very lacking in material to help a new wargamer actually learn the game. Hard to find unit stats, no training scenarios, no warhammer lite rules, etc.

So I ask you all, Who are they trying to target this product to:

1. Brand New Wargamers who will buy the box, take it how, and with a friend learn WHFB.

2. Brand New Wargamers who will learn the game with demos or from friends then buy the box.

3. Existing Wargamers who play other systems that they are trying to bring back into the fold.

4. Existing Warhammer 40K players.

5. Existing WHFB players.

Since GW is the biggest fish in the scene and essentially needs to be constantly bringing in 1 and 2 to offset veteran losses, how well does this product allow it to grow its player base?

Let me see some comments. Do you think this is a great set and why?

Dark Sun 4e Review: Land of the Power Gamers?

If there was one thing that classic Dark Sun always took flak for was that it was a land of power gamers. We had this inclination ourselves but we countered it by always dealing with maximum hit point monsters and after a certain point working mostly against other character level opponents organized into counter forces. All the advantages we had, they had also so the playing field was leveled.

The power gaming rap is mainly related to the fact that standard ability scores could go up to 20. This was a problem more because the ability bonuses were very nonlinear around between 18-19. Huge jumps would show up at that point so you could get enormous bonus's for most characters if you could get that high stat in the primary ability score. They adjusted this in the revision of Dark Sun but that left the strongest humans on Dark Sun weaker than those on other worlds which did not make much sense. This is not really a problem since 3rd when they essentially linearized all the ability score modifiers but in 4e Dark Sun you generate ability score normally anyway. This is just fine with me, an extra +1 to a modifier does not make or break characters.

Another area which drew in the power gamer reputation was that characters started at 3rd level. Getting through first level was often brutal in normal AD&D. I am not the only person who had entire parties wiped out due to unlucky rolls verses a small band of goblins/kobolds. I think that 4e cut down this problem already with higher starting hit points and these healing surges. Might have even gone to far the other way so maybe the nasty world of Athas can put it back into balance when the characters start at first level again.

One thing along these lines that Dark Sun used to have that does not appear in the new edition that probably should was the character tree concept. Essentially the high mortality rate was countered by having back up pc's that advanced levels each time your active character went up. You could then switch your active character between adventures. The only thing was that you could not trade equipment but since magic items were not supposed to a dominate part of the game so this was not so bad. If it is going to be a brutal setting this might still be needed.

So I think they did a pretty good job of pushing the power levels of Dark Sun characters back in line with other worlds. The people of Dark Sun are no longer faster, smarter, stronger than those on other worlds but the environments is still harsher and life more difficult leading to short miserable lives.

Dark Sun 4e Review: Timeline Reboot

The best part of the new edition of Dark Sun is a reboot to the time just after the Death of Kalak in Tyr. Tyr becomes the first free city in the age of the Sorcerer Kings and has to fear attack from outside and treachery from within. This is probably the best time for gaming in the world since it is undergoing major change but without all the silliness you got in the Dark Sun Revision after the Prism Pentad cycle is complete. The Sorcerer Kings are still the dominate presence in the world and life for people who do not follow their rules can quickly get very deadly especially in their City States.

The only limiting part of this timeline point is that characters who want to become real movers and shakers in a city state only really have an option of this in Tyr as opposed to later where more states have lost their nearly invinciable Sorcerer Kings. We had a great campaign based out of Balic after Androponis's disappearence since less stuff was written about the city. The GM had more freedom to develop the location and the factions fighting for control.

Introducing the Dark Sun 4e Review Series

I picked up a copy of the new Dark Sun campaign setting book for Dungeon and Dragons 4th edition. So I am going to be doing a multiple post review of the new setting revision. When I saw the Prism Pentad was being reprinted at Barnes and Noble a little while ago I knew that Dark Sun must be coming back. I have not played a game of 4th edition yet but I wanted to at least check out the rules for my favorite campaign setting when they updated it. A few months back I picked up the first and second player handbooks so I would have some idea of the structure of the game in 4th edition. I had looked over the players handbook last summer at my brothers place but it was so different from tradition DnD that a short look does not really let you get your mind around it. To make proper use of the setting, you need all three player handbooks since player handbook 2 has the primal classes and player handbook 3 for the psionic classes.

So I have a lot to say about this revision and I will divide it up into sections over the next week or so to allow it to be in easy to digust discussions instead of pages and pages of text. I will not really be looking at how balanced it is or even how fun it could be, more about how it relates to the original setting and if that change is good/bad or just makes no sense at all. I know that time has to go on and changes have to be made or the game company will have nothing new to sell and the designers will be out of work but I do not like change just for change.

If you think you find anything interesting just leave a comment so I know I am not yammering to myself. Or if anyone has questions about the setting, I still have quick access to almost every piece of gaming material published for the setting (Just missing City by the Silt Sea and maybe the Forest Maker Adventure I think).

So watch in the near future for more discussion of Dark Sun 4e listed below

Timeline Reboot
Land of Powergamers
Races
Themes
Character Classes
Defiler/Preserver Magic
Equipment: Metal and Coins

Isle of Blood Starter Box

I was at my FLGS picking up some blood bowl star players I ordered and he had got his promo starter box for WHFB in. I stayed a little extra to have a look. Most of the models where primed on the sprue but the models do look pretty good. As I discussed in an earlier post I am tempted by this set since I have always really liked Skaven and back when the last starter set came out I was tempted to start a skaven army but I know now that Horde based armies just are not for me. I will never get them all built or painted.

I have never played a game of WHFB so I will discuss what I saw in terms of what I consider from a complete novice would want in a starter set. This is different from what any of my readers would probably want since they are just looking for a reasonable costed block of miniatures to get an army started. If you are going to by either Skaven or High Elves then this box gets you that without a problem. Add in a Battalion box to the High Elves and you are at about 1500 points. Split 2 sets between a friend and you are both really on your way and you both now have a mini rulebook which is pretty long.

But if you are a complete novice with no experience in the game I think this box will do a very poor job of getting you playing fun games. Do they provide all the information you need to learn to play your units? Sort of. You can find the stats in the stat blocks in the back of the rule book, you can read the unit fluff descriptions to figure out what most of the units are equipped with then go back to the various sections to find out what that means. It will not be always correct since they do not tell you the Skaven Pack Master has light armor or the weapons teams have light armor but for the main blocks they describe the armor as I said in fluffy unit descriptions. The weapons are sort of hidden in there also. Some magic items that the characters might have are hidden in the fluff also but I do not know if those are army book or main book items.

I did not see anything about any of the special rules that apply to the units which will cause a problem since certain of the units are just there to provide special rules based like the weapons teams. They provide no starter scenarios to easy you into playing the minis, no information about the points cost of the units or how to make sure the two armies are balanced for a battle. Should the Mage be a first level or second level. Does the Warlock Engineer magic access? They also do not note that according to the army book rules that you cannot use your Griffin riding hero until you get like 1400 points since he is like 350 points himself. Battle for Skull pass had some bad training scenarios compared to BofM (4th ed 40K starter) which provided like a mini campaign of skirmish battles to teach you the rules.

As a true starter set that 2 young adults (the future of the hobby) could take home and get started playing a fun game that day the box set fails miserably. The models maybe nice but it is going to take a while to get the together, a longer time to read the 200 page rulebook to have any notion of how to play, a fare amount of time to collate the unit information and frustration about not knowing anything about certain units without spending another 58 dollars for the army books. I do not see this box as going to help GW with their eroding player base. I can see why they cannot price it as a loss leader to bring in new people. Only people already deciding to get into the hobby with a strong desire will get fun games played with this box.

Epic: Mars Pattern Reaver

Got myself a new Epic Reaver from my FLGS. New is a pretty odd term for this item. The parts are the same as those made back when I first started with GW games back in 1989, but I never had one back then so it is new for me. It was actually shown as a new item in the very first white dwarf I ever got.

Pretty lean in the filling of the box. They could fit a lot more metal in there.

All the components laid out for examination.

Carapace Top.

Carapace Underside.

Single Head option. Back in the day their were multiple choices for the head.


Two indentical turbolasers.

Here are the shoulder pauldrons. Strange thing is that you get 2 different ones so you are forced to make an asymmetric model.

These different shoulders might have made since with the original kit since it had different weapon options like a titan combat fist.

Missile launcher for some barrage support.


Single piece for the legs.



The two feet.

While I like that the kit has stayed in the classic style I would really like a little more for the price. At least 2 of each pauldron so you can choose the look of the model at least a little.